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#26 homey

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 04:08 PM

I will bring it up at our meeting tomorrow  night about rejoining wohva again. I feel like this is a dying sport and that's not gonna work for me. Sure has gotten frustrating  the last 5 years for wheeling in our state.

#27 Harvester of Sorrow

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 02:15 PM

I tried to ask a couple of the  fellows that were on the west side of the Naches Trail work party if there were any meetings (PNW4WDA) in the North Seattle/King County area....nobody could tell me...

I "think" I would like to get involved.  But like me, I think that people don't ever see the PNW4WDA in/on/interacting with social media and forward promotion.  So when if/when they "might" run across them online they appear to be dead or not really active.  The forums, website, and layout are not something that is easy to understand or flow within.

Just so many things to comment on and think about that it just kind of shuts me down and say fuck it.

#28 dirk

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 03:10 PM

View PostPhantom 309, on 01 June 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Not to put you in a situation to bad mouth the PNW, Dirk, but how does WOHVA's thinking differ from the back dated ways of the PNW? I honestly have not researched it that much and have been wanting to ask you that for a while now.

I'll come back to this with a proper response...

View PostHarvester of Sorrow, on 02 June 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

I tried to ask a couple of the  fellows that were on the west side of the Naches Trail work party if there were any meetings (PNW4WDA) in the North Seattle/King County area....nobody could tell me...

I "think" I would like to get involved.  But like me, I think that people don't ever see the PNW4WDA in/on/interacting with social media and forward promotion.  So when if/when they "might" run across them online they appear to be dead or not really active.  The forums, website, and layout are not something that is easy to understand or flow within.

Just so many things to comment on and think about that it just kind of shuts me down and say fuck it.

Online activity has been a big discussion topic over the years...you get a few active folks like Jim Putman (Pokey) & Merrick Graves (Murkman), but that's about it.

Some interesting dialog going on in the Trail Jamboree - PNW4WDA facebook page...check out the conversation I started regarding improvements to TrailJam...the comment below was from Angie Marek, the President:

Quote

I would hope those who are posting on the forums would attend Fall Delegates Meeting as well as the local region meetings to see all the good things that are happening. Any members who are in good standing and have been a member for at least one year, can run for office. Several offices will be open including mine.

Angie mentions the Fall Delegates Meeting...it is one of many annual meetings listed HERE.  The meeting locations vary.
Region meetings are held monthly...Mark, you will want to attend the Region 1 meeting in Lynnwood DETAILS

#29 dirk

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 03:12 PM

You can see how the regions are broken up over WA/OR/ID HERE

#30 Murkman

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 05:36 PM

The only reason I post on the PNW4WDA site is to correct the minutes of the Region 4 meetings. Otherwise the PNW4WDA site is dead. FB PNW4WDA is lifeless, as is PNW4WDA Region 4.

#31 Harvester of Sorrow

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 07:23 AM

View Postdirk, on 02 June 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:


...Mark, you will want to attend the Region 1 meeting in Lynnwood DETAILS

Thanks.

I have it on my calendar and appointment book.  I will go to the one on 6-17 and see what it is like.

#32 Phantom 309

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 08:02 AM

View Postdirk, on 02 June 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

I'll come back to this with a proper response...



I've been thinking about that question and it might have been BS of me to ask it in public. I'm not trying to get you (or anyone else) into a situation to bash the PNW.

#33 homey

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 10:14 AM

Would  be nice to get everyone together and discuss this in detail....everything can get so twisted out of shape over texting  or emailing.. The last region 1 meeting I went to I think there was 7 people including us. 20 plus years there was 35 plus....

#34 dirk

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 11:04 AM

View PostPhantom 309, on 03 June 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:



I've been thinking about that question and it might have been BS of me to ask it in public. I'm not trying to get you (or anyone else) into a situation to bash the PNW.

No worries. I'm just making sure my answer appropriately captures the WOHVA position.

#35 dirk

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 10:44 PM

View PostPhantom 309, on 01 June 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Not to put you in a situation to bad mouth the PNW, Dirk, but how does WOHVA's thinking differ from the back dated ways of the PNW? I honestly have not researched it that much and have been wanting to ask you that for a while now.

To respond to a comment you made earlier…I do want the PNW4WDA to change.  I do want to see it succeed.  I’ve long felt that 4x4 users need to come together under one organization…there is strength in a united front and that belief was a big reason I didn’t step up for another year as President of the Wheelers of Washington (WOW).  I really felt my time was better spent with the Washington Off Highway Vehicle Alliance (www.WOHVA.org).  Learning the inner workings of our State’s political machine is both frustrating & fascinating.  I posted info about what WOHVA is in this thread  http://www.off-camber.com/forum/topic/3294-what-is-wohva/


How does WOHVA’s thinking differ from the PNW4WDA?


We have different missions.  WOHVA is focused on bringing multiple user groups together…offroad motorcycle, ATV & 4x4.  The PNW4WDA only represents 4x4. We use political action to influence impacts to OHV users…we help finance a paid lobbyist in Olympia, we write & support Pro-OHV bills and we aggressively fight anti-OHV legislation. 

The new ATV road use law (1632) had some pretty nasty language included, until we weighed in (it is far from perfect, but better than it was). 

We helped write SB5800, which allowed users to street license their offroad motorcycles. 

The land use liability bill we introduced would have limited the liability for a private land owner and potentially opened up additional areas to recreate…however the lawyer lobby quickly put the smack down on that. 


We work with land managers to make sure OHV users are represented:

We made sure an OHV user (Mike Reimer) was included on the advisory committee for the Teanaway Community Forest. 

We met with The Nature Conservancy to offer feedback on how they could help OHV use on their new purchase. 

We helped get one of our own, Dave Hiatt, a seat on the DNR Trails Policy Committee.


I’ve heard some users accuse the PNW4WDA of not pushing back on the FS hard enough.  I really don’t feel like the WOHVA BOD is afraid to push back on the powers that be.  When the NOVA funds were stolen from the OHV community a few years back, WOHVA & the NMA sued the State of WA.  When an OHV user was ticketed for not possessing a Discover Pass for their dual registered van, WOHVA paid their legal expenses to fight the ticket.  The DNR’s interpretation of the law is wrong & the lower court upheld that.


Finding people to volunteer their time year after year is a real struggle...people get burned out.  WOHVA is attempting to take our game to the next level and bring paid staff into the fight.  Someone working 8 hours per day/5 days per week would be able to get so much more done!


Having said all that…keep in mind that the President of the PNW4WDA (Angie Marek) is a former WOHVA BOD member.  I know people within the PNW4WDA do good things & want to see OHV opportunities expanded.  However, while they might have great intentions, their actions don't seem to be translating to folks outside the association.  I’d love to see the association get aggressive & actively try to represent ALL 4x4 users and make them feel welcomed.

#36 dirk

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 11:01 PM

Another thought...WOHVA does not support actions that could harm any OHV users even if it benefits another OHV user group. Gaining access for one user group at the expense of another doesn't fly in our book.  All for one & one for all.  This is why the street plated ATV law (1632) was so difficult...you had a small segment of the ATV community willing to push the bill through even though it had flaws & would have had a negative impact on the rest of the OHV community. We weathered a lot of criticism from elected officials for not supporting what they thought was a Pro-OHV bill.

The PNW4WDA represents their members...period.  Since their members are a subset of the 4x4 community, sometimes what they recommend isn't what you or I would want to see. But since they are involved & show up to meetings, that is often the only voice the FS/DNR hears.

Edited by dirk, 04 June 2015 - 09:49 AM.


#37 snyder

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 08:54 AM

View PostMurkman, on 02 June 2015 - 05:36 PM, said:

The only reason I post on the PNW4WDA site is to correct the minutes of the Region 4 meetings. Otherwise the PNW4WDA site is dead. FB PNW4WDA is lifeless, as is PNW4WDA Region 4.
Region 4 is central Washington i.e. yakima/tri cities/Ellensburg and beyond. What makes it lifeless? Are you talking membership involvement or is there other things as well? Or did you mean that from the websites perspective?

#38 Murkman

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 09:13 AM

View Postsnyder, on 04 June 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

Region 4 is central Washington i.e. yakima/tri cities/Ellensburg and beyond. What makes it lifeless? Are you talking membership involvement or is there other things as well? Or did you mean that from the websites perspective?

The FB page for Region 4 has next to nothing being reported on it. Region 4 meetings rotate thruout Region 4 (Tri-City's, Yakima, Wenatchee, Moses lake). They are hardly worth the drive. Not much new, things that are reported are often mis-represented. IMHO hard to justify.

#39 snyder

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 09:45 AM

Just found the region 4 FB page. You are right it's dead.

Edited by snyder, 04 June 2015 - 09:45 AM.


#40 Murkman

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 09:53 AM

View Postsnyder, on 04 June 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

Just found the region 4 FB page. You are right it's dead.

There are 2 PNW4WDA pages. Old dead  (PNW4WDA not official) and the other you spell out Pacific Northwest 4 Wheel Drive Association. That FB page is mostly posted events and links to Tri-Power ( also a worhtless rag).

#41 snyder

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 09:54 AM

Thanks for the info Murkman

#42 dirk

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 10:17 AM

View PostMurkman, on 04 June 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

Tri-Power ( also a worhtless rag).

Well aren't you a ray of sunshine :)

#43 Todd T.

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 02:46 PM

The problem with the pew is 99% of the people still involved in it are stuck in 1970 and dont go jeepin anymore!!

#44 Phantom 309

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 03:28 PM

TRI-POWER: 17 Pages of minutes from past meetings, 4 Pages with pictures of cub scouts picking up garbage, & 1 page of some commentary by Randy Drake talking about Sunshine, Wind dancer or whatever he calls his rigs. Veeeeeeery exciting. Jeepin' Junk and I have a good laugh at that every month.

#45 OZ-Guard

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 09:09 PM

The biggest problem with fighting the government, it feels like pissing in the ocean to raise the tide.

People like results and momentum, when they see things getting accomplished,  they jump on board.

I think everyone wants to put their $$$ or time into keeping the trails open. They just don't know where to invest.

#46 homey

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 10:10 AM

Dirk is there any drawback to joining as a individual membership for wohva?

#47 dirk

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 07:19 PM

View Posthomey, on 07 June 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

Dirk is there any drawback to joining as a individual membership for wohva?

The current set up doesn't allow individual members to vote at the annual meeting.

#48 superglock

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 10:11 PM

Found out some information tonight at the Region 4 meeting, PNW and Region 4 have been a supporter of WOHVA and Blue ribbon. Also because of the PNW's non-profit status it can not bring litigation against the state. You wonder which one to support? I don't care as long as you pick one. We need to stop bitching back and forth between groups and start working together or we will just be handing it all to the other user groups. Horse people, Bikers and hikers seem to have a unified front, They work within their sport to make things happen.

Not everyone wants a Buggy, Jeep, Toyota, Ford, Chevy or Dodge but we better get our heads screwed on or they all will be sitting with some great old stories and no new stories. Don't think so, Just ask some of the old people that remember what it was like back in the day and ask how long ago it was and how fast it is changing.

The PNW old and dead maybe, Maybe it needs some younger help and really bad in the new tech world.

Edited by superglock, 09 June 2015 - 10:11 PM.


#49 Phantom 309

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 03:32 PM

View Postsuperglock, on 09 June 2015 - 10:11 PM, said:

Found out some information tonight at the Region 4 meeting, PNW and Region 4 have been a supporter of WOHVA and Blue ribbon. Also because of the PNW's non-profit status it can not bring litigation against the state. You wonder which one to support? I don't care as long as you pick one. We need to stop bitching back and forth between groups and start working together or we will just be handing it all to the other user groups. Horse people, Bikers and hikers seem to have a unified front, They work within their sport to make things happen.





I agree, Mike. I hope no one gets swayed away from the PNW because of this thread. The backstory on my rants lately were started because of a comment made by a "prominent" PNW member on another site that didn't sit well with me. After replying to it, we were asked what the PNW could do to gain to new members. At that point we were met with the normal PNW responses and attitudes. It all went into a downward spiral from there....

#50 mtn4wheeler

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 07:50 AM

Dirk,

I just got voted in as the Region 3 Director. I have been trying to change some things up for the better. But nothing can happen overnight.

For example: The fall Delegates meeting was going to be in Astoria, OR. I decided to change it to Washougal, WA. The meeting is going to be at a fire station about 12 minutes north of town. My plan is to fast track the meeting so we can be done around 3:00pm. Then after the meeting we will be having a trail run up to the new trails in the Yacolt Burn. The trails are 20 minutes or so away from the fire station. This is the closest place i could find to have the meeting near the trails. Then after going on the trails Region 3 will be providing dinner for all on the trail.

By having everything so close, I hope that we will have a good turnout for the meeting and the trail run. Because after all we are a Association of 4 wheel drive clubs. And most all of us want to use them. So why not.

Marty Tilford
Region 3 Director
360-600-5300