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#51 dirk

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 07:55 AM

Marty... let me know when you have details posted & WOHVA can help spread the word.

#52 mtn4wheeler

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 07:58 AM

Thanks,

I'm getting the meeting room booked this week. Then starting to work on getting the flyer made up.

#53 Wildman

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 05:55 PM

I know this thread died a while ago but I missed seeing it. I am split in the middle here as I am kind of an old fart but at the same time I have new ideas that get shut down by the older folks in the PNW. I was also on the advisory board in WOHVA for a few years but got upset with what I saw going on. I too totally agree the PNW4WDA needs to pull their heads out of their a$$'s and make some changes to get some younger folks involved. But at the same time I don't like some of the actions of the younger crowd. But I don't like some of the stuff the older crowd does either. I'm no saint myself so please don't think I am just ragging on everybody.

I am not a buggy fan here in the PNW. That is just how I feel. I also am not a huge fan of LARGE tires. There is no place here in the PNW that you need 44"-54" tires and there sure the heck isn't any trails that can handle tires that size. Now part of the problem is that trails are being cut and widened to handle rigs that are 80+" wide. That is wrong because no one should be making the trail to fit their rig. Now it isn't just the younger crowd doing this so I am not trying to point fingers at any one group. A lot of the rigs being driven by some of the young people are down right scary. They only have just enough money to put fuel in their rig and buy the minimum parts for it. And I do understand this as I remember being a younger guy and broke while trying to keep a rig on the road.
I have suggested many times to folks in the PNW4WDA that we should try to have conference calls for some meetings so that people like me who live an hour away from the meeting place could participate too. And I have been shot down on each of these ideas. And we need to be more receptive to younger people that may have different ideas than we do. Now I know it is hard to walk into a meeting and when someone asks what type of rig do you drive and you reply "a buggy" and you see everyone looks at you with a frown on their face and you get a kind of cold shoulder. Doesn't make you want to come back does it?

Now my main problem I have with WOHVA is that the whole time I was on the advisory board all the attention was for motorcycles and then ATV/UTV. There are mile and miles of single track trails in this state. Not once did I ever see a discussion about 4x4 trails of any kind. No vehicle trails were every lobbied for that I saw. This isn't saying they don't do anything for vehicles I just never saw any.
And as Mike stated because of the nonprofit status of the PNW4WDA they can't lobby. And as Merk said the Dang Nab Tri-Power is a total waste of money. It takes 3/4 of the money that the PNW4WDA makes every year. They need to come up with a better way to spend the money.
I'd like to be more active but I have days where I am lucky to be able to get up and get a glass of water. And then I am so drugged out that I can't think straight. And I could go to some meetings but can't be gone overnight during the school year. Plus right now I am too broke to be able to afford the fuel or the motel to go to any meetings.

Be pissed at me if you want I am just telling how I feel. I know I am not winning any points by saying I don't like buggys. That isn't really true. If I lived in Arizona or Utah or Calif or some other place where I could REALLY use a buggy I might just have one. But here in the PNW I just don't see a reason to have one.

#54 dirk

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 06:27 PM

Doesn't matter if you see the reason...others do...that's enough & we need to figure out how those rigs fit in.

#55 Jay W

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 06:33 PM

View PostWildman, on 05 July 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

And as Merk said the Dang Nab Tri-Power is a total waste of money. It takes 3/4 of the money that the PNW4WDA makes every year.
Really? Is this an accurate stat?

#56 dirk

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 06:35 PM

...and lots of moto guys are active in WOHVA.  The NMA (http://www.nmaoffroad.org/) has their shit together.   4x4 users can step up anytime...we have a couple committees that people can join via email.  I'm on the WOHVA BOD.  Willy Crawley from Cascade 4x4s is also BOD.  As well as Paul Yelk from North Idaho Trailblazers.  Even Neil Stamp is a BOD member, president of the Stumpjumpers, and wheels a 4x4.

Edited by dirk, 06 July 2015 - 10:03 AM.


#57 Murkman

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 09:10 PM

Keep pulling this topic up. At some point something might come of all this.

#58 Tryan100

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 09:12 PM

I know this is off topic but I would be willing to bet that more damage is done by stock Toyotas then buggys.  I know I did more damage in a Isuzu trooper on 33" tires then I have ever done in my jeep.  I was young and dumb.  I had no idea what jeeping was.  I think education is the key.  I think pointing fingers is stupid.

#59 superglock

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 09:37 PM

Make the vehicle fit the trail not the trail fit the vehicle.  Seems like a simple idea but it appears to be a hard concept.

#60 Phantom 309

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 08:54 AM

I'm trying soooooo hard not comment and turn this thread into a Buggy vs. Anti-Buggy debate....

#61 dirk

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 10:08 AM

View PostPhantom 309, on 06 July 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

I'm trying soooooo hard not comment and turn this thread into a Buggy vs. Anti-Buggy debate....

Do you think the non-motorized community is as divided?  Nope.  I bet they sit back and laugh as we (4x4 users) point fingers and blame each other.

#62 superglock

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 10:44 AM

The thing to remember is not to blame equipment but put blame where deserved, THE JACKASS BEHIND THE WHEEL!!  All rigs can do damage. If you have your pretty what ever but you have to go with your friends to run a trail but don't want body damage, DO NOT CUT TREES. They cant drive and don't want damage DONT CUT TREES. Listen to people and if they say your rig is to big but you still have to go, DONT CUT TREES. Don't have a winch or the right equipment DONT MAKE BYPASSES AND CUT TREES.

Sounds like the gun people, Pick on the firearm or equipment instead of the idiot behind the wheel. Until people are trained about what they are doing to or sport it will continue to get worse. At some point you are going to have to be the bad person and say STOP to you friend. You cant continue to turn a blind eye to your buddy out in a meadow in the mud or driving up the side of the hill making a not climb.

I think people have seen friends and family doing some bad things and don't know any better, They think it is normal and ok. They need some training and tough love to get this going in a positive direction. We need lots of help from the younger generation for trail repairs, There has been a start of influx of a few on current work parties but more is needed.

A lot complain about PNW but if you go to a work party and look who is there it is a lot of 55 plus and older PNW people. There has been pretty much no 20 something to 40 something people showing up. The last work parts sounded like a great turn out but still not many young people. Everyone is busy and wants to have fun but you better get involved or we all will lose.

Edited by superglock, 06 July 2015 - 10:44 AM.


#63 Wildman

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 03:50 PM

View Postdirk, on 05 July 2015 - 06:27 PM, said:

Doesn't matter if you see the reason...others do...that's enough & we need to figure out how those rigs fit in.

Dirk,
Yes you are correct. I never said people shouldn't have them I just said I don't like them which makes me a bad person I know.  Those rigs can fit in but they can't expect new trails to be built just for them. Isn't that like people coming to this country and then expecting us to change our language to make life easier on them?

Phantom 309,
I am not trying to make this into a buggy/non-buggy I just stated how I feel. Just like a lot of people hate Jeeps because when you say 4x4 that is the first thing that most people associate with. I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest. So please don't make this into a us against them.

Mike,
You hit the nail on the head..........

Jay W.,
I will have to find the spending report but yes it is close.


And Dirk I didn't say there wasn't people in WOHVA that own and drive rigs I am just stating what I saw while on the political action mailing list. (I finally remembered what it is called)

Edited by Wildman, 06 July 2015 - 03:54 PM.


#64 Phantom 309

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 04:31 PM

It doesn't sound to me that buggies are really what you hate, Wildman. I doubt if you really care what kind of frame or suspension someone has. It sounds to me like what you hate is people hacking down trees in order to get their vehicle through. If that's the case, I agree whole heartedly (we still differ on the tire issue but I see what your concern is.)

I am a firm believer in gate keepers and think there should be one built at every trail entrance. I realize the logistics of this and the other problems it might create but I'm just saying...

#65 Mumblewood

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 04:32 PM

View PostWildman, on 06 July 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:


  Those rigs can fit in but they can't expect new trails to be built just for them.



I dont see why not, if they want to do the leg work, then good for them. In fact I hope they get trails that's hard for them to run. Eventually they'll get run down then I will be able to run therm, and if not I would still be able to run them(if I chose) with the expectation of broken parts and getting winched.

#66 SHREK

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 04:34 PM

Wildman what is a Buggy? Why is their no use for them in the PNW? What is wrong with a purpose built rig that fits the trails it was built for? From what I have seen the more capable the vehicle the less damage they do.

#67 Wildman

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 07:04 PM

Shrek,
Easy now ........................ What is a buggy? You tell me......

Why is there no use for them in the PNW? Most are to wide, run to large of tires and so on. Plus then they are looking for a more challenging trail so new bypasses are made to make a trail "HARDER".
And for ME my personal view is because I would freeze in an open rig due to my injuries. I like them from places like AZ and UT where there aren't trees and other things in their way. And yes more capable sometime equates to less damage except when the driver gets bored with his highly capable rig so now he starts running up the side of the trail to flex out his rig and such and so does the next guy and so on until now they have done damage to the sides of the trail.

Is it only buggies that do this? No but there are a lot more buggies running 40+" tires that are 15+" wide on full width axles.



And right or wrong this may be the view that many of the PNW have. So how do we change this view? How do you make them see this new type of off-road vehicle into something that will be accepted by your fellow wheelers?

Edited by Wildman, 06 July 2015 - 07:08 PM.


#68 Phantom 309

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 07:24 PM

With all due respect Wildman, I think you've read to many magazines. You're a bit out of touch with most of the Pacific Northwest buggies and their drivers. We're going to have to get you in on a Rimrock run with us when you get your Jeep together.

#69 Jay W

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 07:26 PM

View PostWildman, on 06 July 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

Is it only buggies that do this? No but there are a lot more buggies running 40+" tires that are 15+" wide on full width axles.

I don't think that's true in WA. Those building buggies, for the most part, around here know how to build them to fit the trails.

#70 SHREK

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 07:36 PM

View PostWildman, on 06 July 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

Shrek,
Easy now ........................ What is a buggy? You tell me......

Why is there no use for them in the PNW? Most are to wide, run to large of tires and so on. Plus then they are looking for a more challenging trail so new bypasses are made to make a trail "HARDER".
And for ME my personal view is because I would freeze in an open rig due to my injuries. I like them from places like AZ and UT where there aren't trees and other things in their way. And yes more capable sometime equates to less damage except when the driver gets bored with his highly capable rig so now he starts running up the side of the trail to flex out his rig and such and so does the next guy and so on until now they have done damage to the sides of the trail.

Is it only buggies that do this? No but there are a lot more buggies running 40+" tires that are 15+" wide on full width axles.



And right or wrong this may be the view that many of the PNW have. So how do we change this view? How do you make them see this new type of off-road vehicle into something that will be accepted by your fellow wheelers?
Your mentality sucks. Why would someone building a purpose built rig purposely build it to not fit the terrain they wheel? Its much more likely to see someone like yourself cut a tree or the trail so you don't rip your soft top.

#71 Phantom 309

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 07:46 PM

I won't name names but at the last work party I went to I was eating lunch next to someone that is involved in one of the local trail watch type groups. He drives a shiny, newer, "long" jeep and was asked by a couple how it fits in the tighter trails. His answer was "Great! Whenever I get to a tight spot that might damage it, I get out the saw...." He even griped about a run where the others wouldn't allow him to do that. THIS,  in my opinion, is the type of person that does far more damage than most buggy owners.

Like Tryan said it all comes down to education.

#72 Todd T.

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 09:04 PM

I think the problem is that the older people that still run trails are not seeing the way new things are going jeeps Toyota whatever rigs are getting bigger then a stock flatfender.  So the trails are naturally going to get wider due too bigger rigs, and as far as tire size the guy running the 33 inch tires with open rearend is going to cause more damage to a trail then a rig with 40 inch tires and lockers. The biggest problem of all that I see is the erosion on the trails from water running down them. But thats just my 2 cents

#73 OZ-Guard

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 09:12 PM

I love my buggy, 64" wide on 30" tall tires. Wish it were street legal though.

#74 bobracing

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 06:57 AM

This is flat out scary that someone still has this mentality.

View PostPhantom 309, on 06 July 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

I won't name names but at the last work party I went to I was eating lunch next to someone that is involved in one of the local trail watch type groups. He drives a shiny, newer, "long" jeep and was asked by a couple how it fits in the tighter trails. His answer was "Great! Whenever I get to a tight spot that might damage it, I get out the saw...." He even griped about a run where the others wouldn't allow him to do that. THIS,  in my opinion, is the type of person that does far more damage than most buggy owners.

Like Tryan said it all comes down to education.


#75 OZ-Guard

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 09:31 AM

This is defiantly a national topic.

http://www.swfwda.or...Use_Issues.html